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PvZ
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| Denrus | Date: Thursday, 2014/May/15, 2:25 PM | Message # 1 |
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| So my PvZ is abysmal in comparison to my other match ups, I only have a 45% win rate compared to 65%+ in the other two.
I really want to get other people's opinion on the match up , what you are doing, and maybe some important timings.
I am in diamond btw
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| Edred | Date: Wednesday, 2014/May/21, 0:29 AM | Message # 2 |
 Thursday, March 27th, 2014
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| Sorry, I just now noticed that there's a strategy thread, wish I could have gotten to respond to this sooner so my fellow Protoss brothers don't feel lost.
PvZ in general is not a very hard matchup. But let's face it, the maps these seasons are more restrictive on what we can abuse and not abuse these days. The wide openings to our naturals, hard to reach thirds, and A LOT of open area on the maps this season make PvZ a tad bit more difficult than usual. So what we see a lot on the ladder these days are a combination of early pools and speedling openings to abuse the wide spaces and to gain strong map control and deny scouting. I've been mitigating a lot of the early pool and speedling openings by doing in base gateway openers and following adjusting from there based off what I see when I initially scout.
If you scout a Z getting greedy and going 3 hatch, make him pay for it, slap on some early aggression. You can do this by either outright 4 gating off of 1 base if you don't see him grabbing a gas and send him reeling, or if you scout him getting gas to get speed, go ahead and grab your expansion, add a 2nd gas, and do a sentry/zealot timing on his third, and force him to make roaches.
If you scout him getting a gas shortly after expanding, or a pool/gas opener, do a normal 1 gate expand, finish off your wall, and try to keep as much scouting information flowing as possible. If your initial probe gets killed early without getting a read on whether he's grabbing a third or just going all-in with speedlings or speedling/roach, you NEED to get information as soon as possible. Whether you send out a MSC to scout his third or his natural to check his drone count and see if you catch a glimpse of his army, or hallucinating a phoenix or just doing a stargate opener and locking things down at your wall to prevent any run bys while your air units try to force him into being defensive. If you open stargate, you can always oracle into voidray, or do phoenix, which has a lot of long term benefits, such as preventing devastating muta switches in the mid game, and they have a lot of re-use value as they won't outright die while picking off drones. Also, they're very nice to have if you kept an initial oracle alive and they do a swarmhost transition and you catch them out in the open.
The biggest key to this matchup right now is getting as much information about what your opponent is doing, and adjusting accordingly. Like I mentioned earlier, the maps this season are rough for us. Doing the soul train is not viable on many of the maps, and even grabbing a quick third off of a stargate tech doesn't necessarily work all the time anymore. Best advice I can give you is to play smart. If you need further help feel free to ask, I'm online at weird hours since I live in Hawaii right now, but I'll gladly show you some replays or play Z vs you (my ZvP is actually pretty gnarly) and help you get more comfortable with the new ZvP styles we've been seeing a lot of lately.
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| essthrice | Date: Thursday, 2014/June/05, 3:38 PM | Message # 3 |
 Thursday, June 12th, 2014
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| I just 2 base all in most of my games zergs in diamond dont know how to hold and it is very strong that is my position on the matchup
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| Edred | Date: Thursday, 2014/June/05, 4:35 PM | Message # 4 |
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Thursday, March 27th, 2014
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| Unfortunately most of the maps this season it's extremely hard to grab a third, but there's still a few options to line up taking a third while keeping the zerg honest. I highly recommend you guys start looking into double oracle openings PvZ while taking a third on the maps where the third is hard to get to. Because it's hard for you to grab a third by a certain point of time, remember that the Z user has some distance to cover as well, and would be forced to make spores or lose a handful of queens by properly controlled oracles. You can either get quite a few drone kills, outright kill some queens, or force the Z into a low economy by building spores so early to defend it. At this point you could either seize the opportunity since you have map control with oracles in the air by grabbing a third or going for a strong 2 base timing if the Z wasted a lot of larva on lings instead of drones.
Hope this helps, if you have any questions feel free to ask.
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| ShoCKwAvE | Date: Friday, 2014/June/06, 6:17 AM | Message # 5 |
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Sunday, June 15th, 2014
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| Personally I used to have alot of trouble with pvz untill I started doing a style that minigun uses alot, here's the general flow of the game with this style
1. I forge fe into 1 stargate, I usually make only 1 zealot 2 sentries and a mothership core, from there I add a stargate and get 1-2 oracles, I try to hit drones first but if they have a spore I aim out the queens to slow them down on creep and injects.
2. while I am doing this I take a very fast third and add 2 more gateways for a total of 3 gateways 1 stargate, this will help in the mid game against some pushes and help defend my third, once third is more secure with a cannon and those 2 gates blocking it I add 2 more stargates and start to transition into void rays, usually I make 4-6 and stop there.
3 Once third is up and going with full saturation I throw up a twilight and go up to a total of 8-10 gates and add templar tech+ another forge asap, the composition I use to push back zerg at this point is sentry zealot void rays.
4. once templar tech is up I take a 4th asap, the fourth will be pretty easy to defend with chargelot void ray templar/archon. Once this is up I add 2 robo's and a fleet beacon. The reasoning behind this is double robo immortal+tempests will handle any ultralisk transition, and double robo colossi+tempest will handle any swarm host transition, and 3 stargate+archon/storm will naturally handle any air transition. The end composition is chargelot,archon,voidray,collosus,templar,tempest, a note, when you take your forth its also a good timing to deny their 4th or do damage with the zealot void ray templar composition, also I focus on getting most out of oracles I can, by trying to harrass any new base, trying to snipe any queens laying creep and using evision to reveal and kill creep tumors and revelation to keep track of their army incase they try multiprong aggression
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| PheX | Date: Friday, 2014/June/20, 5:37 PM | Message # 6 |
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Saturday, June 28, 2014
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| PVZ, If I can I FFE (expand natural with forge) and make sure you block ramp if possible or connect wall to nexus. I then make 1 stargate then make a void ray. Usually zergs will make a 3rd base when they see you doing this. I rally VR to 3rd base and start going after everything. I then make 4-5 pheonixs to follow. You can't lose your void ray though. This build is great when a zerg gets greedy and tries to fast muta you. It generally forces them into roaches/hydras. From there I go Robo into 4-5 more gates and a third expo.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum....e-guide
This is a great guide to go through. I'd use this.
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| ShoCKwAvE | Date: Friday, 2014/June/20, 5:47 PM | Message # 7 |
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Sunday, June 15th, 2014
Group: Forum Visitor
Messages: 24
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| http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcra....._Zerg)
Guide for the build I use as well, enjoy
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| Warbeak | Date: Wednesday, 2014/September/03, 1:43 PM | Message # 8 |
 Saturday, February 7th, 2015
Group: Forum Visitor
Messages: 13
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| Is everyone still finding success with these Stargate openers into charge + storms styles recently?
I've been practicing a ffe -> stargate + robo- making constant pheonix and getting a warp prism with zealots for harass early, teching to collo then taking a 3rd base when collo is out. Problem with this build is when the zerg either does an early hydra bust or they're just able to just macro up before my 3rd base gets going and roll me in the mid-late game. I feel like I'm not getting enough done early to prevent strong zerg economy or just being way too vunerable to an early hydra bust.
http://sc2replaystats.com/replay/850263 (early hydra bust)
http://sc2replaystats.com/replay/840538 (macro into pwn)
Even though this build differs from the charge + storm variant in tech route, I feel it follows a really similar game plan with early air to do damage and seems like it would suffer from the same vulnerabilities.
I just feel like the current zerg meta involves a quick hydra den and that seems super strong vs these styles. Maybe taking an earlier 3rd base with storms is a better way of doing this? Or maybe just early gateway play to keep them honest and scout as Edred suggested is a better way to play atm? Anyone else just feel like these stargate-first builds are less effective nowadays? Anyone finding success with other styles?
Edit: im playing at rank 23 Diamond atm
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