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ZvT Why no Hydra?
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| FalseMotive | Date: Sunday, 2014/March/02, 3:39 AM | Message # 1 |
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Monday - February 24th - 2014
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| Other than the gas usage... Just wondering especially after buff since even before even supply hydras raped marines..
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| DarkRain | Date: Thursday, 2014/March/06, 5:28 PM | Message # 2 |
 Tuesday, January 28th, 2014
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| This is my thought. Even though hydras rape marines, marines DO kill hydras, and they ARE more expensive and invaluable to trade with vs marines, where as vs toss, the enemy loses gas units too unless zealots. Thats why they are used alot more in the zvt matchup when terran goes mech. In simplicity, its more effective trading marines for lings/banes than it is to trade marines with hydra/ling or hydra/roach. Even though hydra roach is good, they dont do enough damage to kill a mass of units such as rine/rauder. Tell me if im wrong but thats what I think.
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| Belgarath | Date: Monday, 2014/March/10, 4:28 AM | Message # 3 |
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Sunday, January 11th, 2015
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| Quote DarkRain (  ) This is my thought. Even though hydras rape marines, marines DO kill hydras, and they ARE more expensive and invaluable to trade with vs marines, where as vs toss, the enemy loses gas units too unless zealots. Thats why they are used alot more in the zvt matchup when terran goes mech. In simplicity, its more effective trading marines for lings/banes than it is to trade marines with hydra/ling or hydra/roach. Even though hydra roach is good, they dont do enough damage to kill a mass of units such as rine/rauder. Tell me if im wrong but thats what I think.
So what your saying, is that the killspeed/unit losses arnt good enough to make hydra against terran?
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| DarkRain | Date: Monday, 2014/March/10, 4:10 PM | Message # 4 |
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Tuesday, January 28th, 2014
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| Yeah pretty much. THOUGH I have seen plays where If you can get burrow and micro like mofos with hydra ling timing vs a reaper helion opener, you MAY be able to just straight up kill him, but that games I saw were masters playing. I have tried it and I got STOMPED on. too many hydras died, speedlings got roasted by lings. You would think roach hydra would be better, which I would agree, lol. I guess it would come alittle later though (by like 5 mins) where as ling/hydra hits faster,AND terran can scout for roaches and make tanks which destroy roach/hydra in general.
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| Flux | Date: Monday, 2014/March/31, 4:58 AM | Message # 5 |
 Sunday, April 20th, 2014
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| Yea, it's basically a problem with cost efficiency, I think if you play Zerg currently, against the most common builds that are 3cc it is already imperative to take great engagements and do maximum damage while taking minimal losses. This is very difficult to do with hydras as if you take a poor engagement hydras don't have much capability of escaping mmm's mobility. Another huge problem with hydras generally vs Terran is they are very poor at defending drops on maps with terran only navigated by air, and most terrans will see hydras and ramp up the drops, knowing that your counter-attack time is much less that ling bling muta. However, on smaller maps like Yeonsu, or Merry go round where you have difficulty taking an early 3rd vs Terran 3cc it is sometimes useful to have some tricky builds in your deck. To throw terran players off, and also just for some variety it is fun to open Soulkey's 1-1 Roach timing and follow it up with roach hydra viper. It's not a guaranteed win but you can certainly be in a good place, especially if the terran mindlessly makes widowmines rather than tanks. This does require a much larger amount of static defense to stay safe from counter-attacking drops while you move your "Zerg Deathball" around the map.
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| DOUBLED | Date: Friday, 2014/April/11, 12:51 PM | Message # 6 |
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Thursday, April 17th, 1014
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| I agree with Flux 100%. Muta is for the harrass/ drop defense.
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| FalseMotive | Date: Saturday, 2014/April/12, 11:53 AM | Message # 7 |
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Monday - February 24th - 2014
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| Interesting, even after the change i don't use hydras much. I definitly dont feel as bad making them vT now, but i don't make many lol. My sweet spot currently is ling>bling>roach>muta...and i just get a feel for when vT makes too many tank or thors then tech switch and go for throat. ie, too many tanks, as many mutas as possible and too many thors a few muta and mass roach/ling. Because when i used to play terran nothing hurt my soul more then 8 thors shooting slowly up at 4 muta while 12034254 roaches were obliterating them lol.
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| hack | Date: Monday, 2014/April/14, 7:21 PM | Message # 8 |
 Saturday, May 9th, 2015
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| what if you keep making a mixure of hydra roach banes??
hydra does good vs banshee and help to kill medivacs which heal marines...
once your roach and banes are gone.. retreat your hydra...??
just a question
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| DarkRain | Date: Tuesday, 2014/April/15, 10:59 PM | Message # 9 |
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Tuesday, January 28th, 2014
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| Ehhh
The MMM could out run hydras unless you retreat fast enough, but It was meta back in WOL to bane/roach/hydra so it will work vs someone who plays MMM still vs zerg.
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| Finrod | Date: Saturday, 2014/May/10, 9:14 PM | Message # 10 |
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Saturday, February 7th, 2015
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| I think the problem is that typically a terran will mix in seige tanks vs a roach/hydra composition. This means that ass your army moves in, itll take a few free volleys from tanks, making the hydras already weak when fighting against the marines/medivacs which should out-heal your damage and kill your weakened hydras before you can deal enough damage
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| Chase | Date: Tuesday, 2014/June/10, 7:02 PM | Message # 11 |
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| so if they have seige tanks cant u just burrow in ur roaches and pop them up by the tanka to tank shota and cause splash damage maybe then u can use the hydras to deal damage
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| KingofBlades | Date: Saturday, 2014/June/28, 5:49 PM | Message # 12 |
 Thursday, September 18th, 2014
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| To put is simply, every hydra that spawns must kills 3 marines or scvs befire it dies to be cost efficient.
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| BRISINGR | Date: Wednesday, 2014/July/02, 9:58 AM | Message # 13 |
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| Hydras just basically are expensive for the amount of health they have so they can only be used when supplemented with roaches or some other unit that has more health to tank like swarm hosts.
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| xenixerg | Date: Thursday, 2014/July/03, 6:47 PM | Message # 14 |
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Saturday, February 7th, 2015
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| Roach hydra is pretty strong with 2-2 upgrades off 3 bases vs terran.
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| FalseMotive | Date: Saturday, 2014/November/22, 5:14 AM | Message # 15 |
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Monday - February 24th - 2014
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| All interesting points. The few games I have played since returning I have seen an upswing in WoL strategies from vT and vP. The roach/hydra/viper seems to be staple nowadays.. Am I right?
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| Alaska | Date: Saturday, 2014/November/29, 4:46 PM | Message # 16 |
 Saturday, January 17, 2015
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| Hydras die to siege tanks, WM and hellbats really easily. With terran mech becoming more and more common in ZvT, going hydras is becoming more of a risk. If it were against a marine/marauder/thor comp, roach hydra would be pretty good.
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| Silverwynd | Date: Tuesday, 2016/June/07, 3:05 PM | Message # 17 |
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| as a zerg player i do use hydra/roach against mass rines, however a few lurkers can go a long way with preserving units, and you have to be able to constantly reinforce them so, if your losing too many hydras, switching up is a must, even if its just to focus on roaches for awhile, the extra armor will help stop your losses against the rines, but either way 4-5 lurks for support can turn a battle around real quick, just make sure to keep your units in front of the lurks, you want the enemy in attack range, but you dont wanna lose your lurks
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| NeoParashath | Date: Saturday, 2016/October/01, 6:30 PM | Message # 18 |
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| Roach Hydra is a timing attack and will eventually fall off late game against Bio. If Terran is smart they will mix in tanks with their army. This is why you will need to get Vipers as well.
Ling Bane Mutalisk/Corrupter is standard.
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