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LotV Sweetness macro open
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| remo | Date: Sunday, 2015/November/22, 1:26 AM | Message # 1 |
 Thursday, February 12th, 2015
Group: Administrators
Messages: 1010
Status: Offline
| This is shamelessly stolen from one of our new players, Sweetness. I hope he doesn't mind...
This is a very greedy build, probably best on maps with a back pocket expansion and a narrow ramp.
14 pylon
16 gas
17 gateway
19 nexus
21 cyber core
21 pylon
21 gas
23 pylon
25 adept
27 mothership core
these finish in time to deny reaper escape
27 warpgate
32 sentry
32 double forge
38 double gateway
38 sentry
40 +1 weapons
40 +1 armor
two point harass with adept and mothership core
44 pylon
44 gas
4:20 warpgate finishes
you should have 2 sentries, 1 adept, 1 mothership core
In this game he proceeds to add a twilight council but id imagine this is where you can make a decision to go multiple directions.
http://woahwoah.ballerterran.com/replays....2Replay
Sweetness, I've put this up for the benefit of our lower level protoss players. We talked about this build a bit between ourselves but I would appreciate your comments here on the forum. Thanks.
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| Sweetness1609 | Date: Sunday, 2015/November/22, 2:46 AM | Message # 2 |
 Forum Lieutenant
Group: JCOS
Messages: 54
Status: Offline
| As the creator of the build I feel I need to provide full disclosure. This build has many macro flaws. I will point out a few, but the main goal of this thread to provide some direction for our Protoss brethren. Upon reflection, I would change some of the build order.
The timings were a bit late as I am still getting used to the new economy and how fast the game ramps up compared to HOTS. But more importantly, I would change the build order around.
A FEW DISCLOSURES FIRST.
(the supplies are all estimations but the order of the buildings is the important feature.)
(You should not stop making probes until your first 2 bases are saturated or you scout/suspect an all-in.)
(This version of the play style should only be attempted if you have access to a backdoor expansion.)
(If you want to play this style on a standard map with a traditional natural in front of your main. I suggest going gate, gas, core, Nexus. Then follow up with the 2nd and 3rd gates before you make the Double Forges.)
14 pylon
16 gate
19 Nexus
19 gas
20 core
21 pylon
22 gas
after that I wouldn't change the build as its listed up above.
However more importantly, the style is to aquire a large and surprisingly strong gateway force to fight the Terran army.
Almost like a Protoss version of Terran's Marine/Marauder/Medivac army. The way to accomplish that is to go for 2 very fast forges and out upgrade the Terran army using gateway units. This style abuses the Chrono mechanic for Protoss and with the new LOTV constant hands-free chrono system, its more abusable than ever!
With the quick forge and 1/1 ground attack and ground armor upgrades you will need to build a Twilight Council by the 4:30 to 5:00 minute mark.
Its important to note the initial Adept is to stop Reaper harass and to scout your opponent's front. You can camp the top of their ramp if they are teching heavily or are fast expanding. Either of which will usually force them to show you the units they are building just to defend your poke. If they can easily force your Adept back with several units on the first poke I would be concerned they are one basing into a large army.
If your poke doesn't reveal their plans, you can use the first Sentry to Hallucinate an Oracle scout and hopefully scare them into thinking you teched Stargate!
NOTE: It is more important to know what they are trying to do, than to make them think you are Oracle harassing.
The additional Sentries are key as they are needed to stop your opponent from engaging up the ramp until you have built a sufficient enough army. I suggest 4 Sentries. Also I want to note the 3 Stalkers I have in the back of the Natural. They are there to defend early harass from my opponent as I do not know the tech/build choices of my opponent.
At this point you can transition into Robo tech, Templar tech, or an all-in depending on your play style or what you scout. I would emphasize your 2/2 upgrades over getting Blink when the Twilight Council finishes. When you can afford it, I scale from 3 gates, into 5 gates with Charge, then typically expand into a 3rd. At which point I build a Templar Archives and make 2 Archons. After which I round out the total to 8 gateways.
This style a very potent army that can deal with Terran BIO and has no problems with small skirmishes all over your base or the map, unlike the traditional Protoss Deathball. Its extremely mobile and is cost efficient when you are fighting from a position of superior upgrades.
If the Terran is deciding to turtle, or you want to put the pressure on them, Adept drops work well in the early to mid game, while Disruptor drops and Templar drops work great in the late game! Just load up a Prism with 2 Templar and 2 Zealots. The Templar will damage or kill the workers outright, and the Zealots will clean up the rest. Then you can pick up the Templar and go home or really put on the pressure by merging them into an Archon and warping in more units!!!
Also here's a Pro tip that I learned. If you are afraid of Ghosts late game or just in general and suck at splitting. Just get a warp prism, and put your Templar in the Warp Prism. They now move faster and wont lose their energy to an EMP blast!
Best of luck! And any additional comments people would like to make are always welcome!
You will know it when you see it.
Message edited by Sweetness1609 - Sunday, 2015/November/22, 2:48 AM |
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| remo | Date: Sunday, 2015/November/22, 5:34 AM | Message # 3 |
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Thursday, February 12th, 2015
Group: Administrators
Messages: 1010
Status: Offline
| Wow that is a tremendous writeup Sweetness. Thank you much.
Warp prism templar is just evil, esp with the new pickup range...
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| Telos | Date: Wednesday, 2016/March/30, 6:25 AM | Message # 4 |
 Tuesday, February 14th, 2015
Group: Blocked
Messages: 253
Status: Offline
| 1st pylon was late, this snowballs the optimal potential of the build. If that ever happens, I'd get earlier MSC. Reaper could punish a greedy Nexus before Core. If double forge is the choice, I'd have grabbed 3rd before tech, but perhaps you can't play TOOO risky, double forge before tech is risky enough :P ; staking your claim to commit to ground and defend cost efficiently is why I would have grabbed an earlier 3rd. A robo that late unsettles me, but at least u can make cannons vs drops. However, against Remo's style, this build is perfect cuz it's good to have early 1-1 against that Remo style where if you don't have something good by 4-5 min ur fucked.
warp prism + HTs not only do whats mentioned above, but also creates a good arch for flanking Terran with storms, which is my purpose for using it. Warp prisms move faster than HT so its good to get some storms behind them while the ones up front chase them back.
both players did a good job of creating diversions with small groups of units. thats a sign that the player is good, and that impressed me from both sides.
I can't believe the double forge baught that much time and created that big of a bubble in economy for how expensive it is to get all them upgrades that early. it worked well though and created a chance to be greedy and get high income with low army count.
*note* I usually start +1 shields before +3 armor. IDK just my personal preference, but I think every Protoss should at least consider it before rejecting that idea, esp at that point of the game where templar are prevelant. no major engagement will happen besides harass, so an earlier +1 might reduce 100% dmg since shields regen and you're most likely to bring back injured units with micro. early +1 shields creates a longer window for harass and protects a harassing unit from dying from mis-micro, which is prevalent with lag. it's expensive but worth it IMO esp in PvT.
it looked like sweetness was ahead, but towards the end, Remo stayed persistent and slowly made a comeback that I didn't expect by lifting up the main CC for a 4th...pffft Terran...
anyway, my comments are late. im sure u both have improved a lot beyond the time this thread was published.
Sweetness used upgrades to gain economy by surviving with less production in order to compensate for greed. smart move deff. Remo sure knows how to make 3 bases last with Terran.
In the end, when it comes down to bases drying up, the smallest drop can pull everything out of position, and thats what we saw. It's almost like Sweetness avoided using warp prisms the whole game just to catch him off guard at the end with it. With such a huge bank, you can just poke in and out with small groups and divide and conquer a terran the same way terran do to a Protoss who grabs too quick a 3rd. Good game, well played by both. good write-up and game analysis.
The double forge before tech opener would work great at lower levels too (not knocking the build; I'd do it and have done it) provided you can micro, but in this situation, it created an opportunity for Sweetness to be safe while teching to storm and grabbing a 3rd without worrying about widow mine drops cuz of cannons being available, and also protects against all-ins with sentries blocking the ramp, and having 1-1 just in case the Terran slips in. This is perfect for the Protoss that likes to defend with the smallest amt of units possible and maintain cost efficiency. GG yall!
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