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PvZ Anti Ling Muta!
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| CrunChy | Date: Friday, 2013/May/24, 2:08 AM | Message # 1 |
 Saturday, July 10th, 2010
Group: Elder's Board
Messages: 1510
Status: Offline
| Mutalisk play is increasingly popular in ZvP, and dealing with those mass Mutas is a common PvZ problem. Going for a 2 base all-in to try to kill the Zerg before or right as he gets Mutas is certainly a viable option but that is dodging the problem, rather than dealing with it. This page outlines how to play a long macro game against mutas.
Goal
Beat a Zerg going Muta/Ling in a macro game.
Basic Strategy
Builds that blindly mass Sentries at the beginning are bad, particularly if the Zerg is going Mutalisks. Getting to 8-12 Sentries early game seems to be very common in PvZ but it is often not a good idea, unless going for a quick 2 base all-in.
The core of the anti-Muta army is Blink Stalkers, not Phoenix. The Protoss opening does not matter much, far more important is the reaction upon scouting Mutas. If you were planning to go Colossus and already have a Robotics Bay, that's fine. Just do not make/cancel Colossi, add a Twilight Council, and research Blink as soon as possible.
Core Unit Composition
The ideal composition to battle Muta/Ling is Blink Stalkers, Zealots, and High Templar. Keep a High Templar at each base with a few in the main army. As the game progresses and more Mutalisks enter the fray, it is appropriate to increase the HT count, but the Stalker count must be kept high. Do not morph Archons preemptively (make Archons after using Psionic Storm, not before). Though Archons are comfortingly sturdy, it is better to have Storm than Archons, and Stalkers are too important to afford both. Sentries - for Guardian Shields against Muta and Force Fields against Zerglings - have some value, but are rarely worthwhile since they are easily sniped. Zealots are important not only as a mineral dump, but also to protect Stalkers from Zerglings and conserving Storms for use against Mutas.
Source:
This information was pulled from TeamLiquid.net
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| VoidDweller | Date: Thursday, 2013/May/30, 2:13 PM | Message # 2 |
 Friday, June 21st, 2013
Group: Blocked
Messages: 132
Status: Offline
| whenever im faced with mass muta I tend to just weather the harass until I get to a critical mass of archon/ht stalker,zealot. Often times you can slip some DTs into the Z base and kill a bunch of drones as the zerg is preoccupied. I make 0 sentries after muta scout. then just push out, enough archons blow away lings and clumped mutas.. and as long as you micro around your blink stalkers they can be kept safe.
Reading that again I guess that's kinda what you just said haha
"Luckily, he's pulling all of his SCV's. That will help him defend against the banelings." - IdrA
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| KhalDanis | Date: Monday, 2013/June/03, 0:33 AM | Message # 3 |
 Saturday, February 7th, 2015
Group: Officers
Messages: 161
Status: Offline
| Quote (CrunChy) The core of the anti-Muta army is Blink Stalkers, not Phoenix.
I HIGHLY disagree with this... Blink stalkers are only part of the solution against ling mutas. Phoenixes are the ONLY way you will be able to handle 22-25+ Mutas (mass mutas) without shooting yourself in the foot later in the game.
There are a few reasons for this:
1. Stalkers are extremely expensive in high numbers, and against that many mutas I stated above, you NEED to have at LEAST more stalkers than he has mutas, because Stalkers scale very poorly as the muta numbers vs stalker numbers go up.
2. Stalkers cannot be produced in enough numbers usually against a mass muta flock due to restrictions on gate numbers and the fact that a muta player can chip away at stalker numbers FASTER than Stalkers can muta numbers.
3. Muta attack upgrades make Stalkers exponentially more vulnerable because of both Zerg being able to outproduce and the fact that Protoss cannot match the overall dps of the muta ball.
4. Phoenixes are FAAAR more cost effective, especially with JUST +1 air, and the combination of the APC fleet beacon upgrade.
5. Phoenixes can ABSOLUTELY match mutas in mobility, and can KILL mutas faster than Zerg can remake them.
6. When I said 'cost-effective', I meant it overbearingly so, because you can use JUST 15 Phoenixes to demolish a muta ball of 30 mutas. You rarely need more Phoenixes than that because you can complement the Phoenix damage with other AA units at that stage as well as with storm/templar tech, which will be more versatile than the Phoenixes in killing bases which is the true way to kill a muta Zerg - stifle his economy.
Furthermore, 10-15 phoenixes, depending on how big the muta ball is, are less gas consuming and less mineral consuming than trying to match stalker numbers to mutas, which ALLOWS freedom to tech to something else that will be good against a fast tech switch from mutas to, say, hydras.
Let me clarify one thing, though: Stalkers are decent against mutas, but not against MASS mutas. You can use Blink stalkers + cannons as a STOP-GAP measure for something else like 2-3 stargate Phoenixes and +1 air weapons, then adding a fleet beacon to get the range upgrade if Zerg insists on continuing muta production.
Stalkers, when you opt for a ground-based opening WILL be your only defense, but staying in stalkers to try and defend in the long run will cost you the game; you need to tech up to Phoenixes.
This is the MAIN reason why Protoss PvZ meta is very attracted to 5 Phoenixes off 1 stargate openings to act as a "deterrent" to Zergs going for mutas, because preemptively using a stargate means that mutas in low-medium numbers are a non-issue, and it tends to force Hydra tech, which in turn is answered by Protoss going colossus Phoenix/VR and once Zerg gets Vipers for Abducts, Protoss responds with templar tech. Muta tech is quite a poor option, unless Zerg tries to heavily commit with mutas and corruptors, and taking many bases behind the harass, and some maps tend to be more suited for that.
Stalkers, in general, are mediocre as a core unit to defend against mutas. They're only a temporary solution, and can only be used vs Muta numbers 20 and under, that too, assuming the Protoss has around 20-22 stalkers to push those mutas back + photon cannons, but after that, Stargate tech is the only true answer to killing mass mutalisks.
Now, you shall feel the power of the Protoss...
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| uDoge | Date: Wednesday, 2014/April/09, 1:41 AM | Message # 4 |
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Forum Private
Group: Forum Visitor
Messages: 5
Status: Offline
| Mutalisk so OP in PvZ, if you are stuck on two base without blink, you basically have two choices.
1. Leave and let my eco die.
2. Stay and not expo.
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| Relay | Date: Monday, 2014/May/12, 7:09 PM | Message # 5 |
 Sunday, January 11th, 2015
Group: Forum Visitor
Messages: 28
Status: Offline
| I've found the single most important skill in playing pvz is remembering to check the zergs ACTUAL army before your 2nd base gets established. If you know z is going muta early enough (around the 7-8 min mark) you can start double stargate phoenix while getting your 3rd up and walling it vs mass ling. If you start teching on 2 base and get suprised by muta, it can take you till the 12-13 min mark to even think about taking your third. By then you are too far behind the zerg to ever challenge for map control and your main base will run dry while the zerg gets to 5 bases.
In short, GUARANTEE ZERG ISNT GOING MUTA. Scout early enough in the game to react to it and take your 3rd comfortably early using 2 stargate phoenix. under 20 muta's will not be able to deny you a third if you make sure to guard it vs mass ling.
Adversity doesn't build character, It reveals it.
Hello Vice Admiral
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| Mayhem | Date: Monday, 2014/May/12, 11:28 PM | Message # 6 |
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Satuday, May 17th, 2014
Group: Forum Visitor
Messages: 7
Status: Offline
| I was just watching Day[9] and he showed that the layout of the map is an important factor in how you will defend the mutas. If bases are conjoined with walls that stalkers can blink across then they are fine to use to defend against the mutas. If the map doesn't allow for this then plan on producing a few phoenix early game to scout and watch for a spire. If he still goes muta up the phoenix production and slaughter the mutas.
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| hierophant | Date: Tuesday, 2014/May/13, 1:12 AM | Message # 7 |
 Sunday, January 4th, 2015
Group: Forum Visitor
Messages: 5
Status: Offline
| Early stargates deal with mutas. By introducing that first phoenix u have the potential to scout your opponent. Take out all overlords sent on the map. And hurass if u choose to get 4. If u get 4. U need to kill like 2 queens. A couple overlords. And a few drones to be truly successful w your investment. The only thing ive been overpwered by is fast zerg rushes. Which exploit a nexus first build. And delays sgs if u go a safer route. But phoenix can kyte the dogsh¥£ out of mutas
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| Shadow | Date: Monday, 2014/June/23, 0:50 AM | Message # 8 |
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Friday, June 27, 2014
Group: Graduate
Messages: 10
Status: Offline
| I think if you want to be able to have the muta players really scared of you, you will need a mix of archons and pheniox so if he trys to go corrupters and mutas to counter the pheniox you will have the archons that can counter the mutas lings and corrupters
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| ShoCKwAvE | Date: Monday, 2014/June/23, 8:00 AM | Message # 9 |
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Sunday, June 15th, 2014
Group: Forum Visitor
Messages: 24
Status: Offline
| just open 1 stargate take a faster third throw up 2 more stargates, and any air transition is solved, use 1-2 oracles to cast revelation on muta flock and your even safer, if still worried put 2-3 cannons in mineral line and 1-2 templar, you can also beat muta ling pretty easily with stardusts chargelot archon build, build wall in your bases , and keep up on your double forge upgrades and muta wont be able to really touch you, basically you treat it like you would any swarm style be it chargelot archon or ultra ling, wall in your bases and go the appropraite counter to the 'power' unit.
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